A Conversation with a Service Couple - The Botts

Since the launch of our podcast, we have been talking to members of Military families about some of the unique challenges they have face living with a member of the Canadian Armed Forces. 

But what happens when there are two people in the family that are members of the Canadian Armed Forces? In this episode we are talking to a service couple about how they have managed to overcome some of those challenges - and some of the solutions that have helped them.   

In our discussion we talk about: the challenges of juggling two Military careers, what happens if two people are deployed at the same time, how life in a military family can affect children – and if being a Military member makes it easier – or harder – to be a Military spouse.

About our guests:

Melissa and Heath Bott are senior officers in the Canadian Armed Forces.  Melissa as a Logistics Officer and Heath an Infantry Officer. Heath joined the military in 1997. And Melissa joined in 2001. They met when they were reservists with the Governor General Foot Guards. 

They got married in 2006. And in 2009, they transferred to the Regular Forces. Heath and Melissa have two children, a daughter who is 15 and a son who is 12. Since 2009, Heath and Melissa have relocated five times, most recently to Gagetown. 

Melissa has been deployed twice, once on OP Unifier in 2014 as part of the Theater Activation Team, and OP Impact roto 5/6 in 2016 17 in Kuwait. Heath has also deployed twice.  Once as a Reservist to Bosnia in 2005 and a second time to Op Unifier in 2021. 

Melissa and Heath are currently Officer Commanding companies throughout their career they have learned with practice how to achieve a healthy work life balance. 

If you have questions for Heath or Melissa, please send us email and we will forward it to them.  

If you have ideas for an episode, we would love to hear them.  You can reach us at Podcast.Feedback@PetawawaMFRC.com

Transcript

Julie [00:00:27]

Hi, welcome back to Military Family Life. My name is Julie Hollinger. 

For the last couple of months, we have been talking to members of military families about some of the unique challenges that they have faced living with a member of the Canadian Armed Forces. 

But what happens when there are two people in the family that are members the Canadian Armed Forces? 

This month we are talking to a service couple about how they have managed to overcome some of those challenges - and some of the solutions that have helped them. Before we start that conversation. I want to tell you a little bit about our guests. 

Melissa and Heath Bott are senior officers in the Canadian Armed Forces.  Melissa as a Logistics Officer and Heath an Infantry Officer. Heath joined the military in 1997. And Melissa joined in 2001. They met when they were reservists with the Governor General Foot Guards. 

They got married in 2006. And in 2009, they transferred to the Regular Forces. Heath and Melissa have two children, a daughter who is 15 and a son who is 12. Since 2009, Heath and Melissa have relocated five times, most recently to Gagetown. 

Melissa has been deployed twice, once on OP Unifier in 2014 as part of the Theater Activation Team, and OP Impact roto 5/6 in 2016 17 in Kuwait. Heath has also deployed twice.  Once as a Reservist to Bosnia in 2005 and a second time to Op Unifier in 2021. 

Melissa and Heath are currently Officer Commanding companies throughout their career they have learned with practice how to achieve a healthy work life balance. 

Heath and Melissa have enjoyed serving in the Canadian Armed Forces and they look forward to many years to come. 

We hope that you enjoyed the conversation that my cohost Claudia Beswick and I had with Heath and Melissa Bott.

Melissa and Heath thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you taking the time. Let's just start off. If you could introduce yourself, talk a little bit about what your background is and what your connection is to the military. 

Do you want to start off Melissa? 

Melissa [00:02:15] :

Sure. My name is Melissa Bott. I'm a Major Logistics Officer. I'm currently posted in Gagetown and I'm the Officer Commanding of Supply Company.

Heath [00:02:27]:

I am Major Heath Bott. I am an infantry officer with the Royal Canadian Regiment. I'm currently posted in Gagetown NB as well. And I am serving with the 2nd Battalion RCR as the OC of Kilo company.  My connection with the Military - I joined the Military back in 1997 as an Infantry Reservist with the Governor General's Foot Guards in Ottawa, and I served there for 12 years before transferring over to the Regular Force in 2009. And then we've been in the Regular Force since then.

Julie:

Did you have any connection to the military before you joined – were you in a military family. Was it a culture that you were familiar with? 

Melissa [00:03:08]: 

So, I'll jump in. I have no background, no connection at all. No one in my family has been in the Military and it's just something that always interested me.

I did join the Army Cadets when I was in high school and when I – or not high school in primary.  And when I was in high school, someone from RMC came and did a little presentation on what they had to offer at RMC. At that point, I became very interested in it, but I was also fearful of the BMQ or the basic training. So, I opted not to go to RMC, and I just went to University of Ottawa. 

Julie:

And Heath - do you have a background with military in your family?

Heath: 

Yes. So, I think a big influence for me was my grandfather. He served in in the Royal Canadian Navy and in Royal Canadian Air Force. And I had some good pictures, but I was three or four years old. He just taught me how to salute and stuff.  So, I think that has influence on me. But joining was primarily my older cousin he had joined the Reserves and talking about his experiences. So, I said, Hey, that sounds kind of neat. And so that's what sort of started me on my path in the military.

Julie [00:04:22]

So, when you say Governor General’s Foot Guards, are you talking about parading in front of Parliament Hill every morning?

Heath:

I sure am. So that is one part of that unit does and I did participate In the Ceremonial 

Guard six different summers. In fact, that's how Melissa and I met was through Ceremonial Guard back in 2001.

Julie:

In the 1990s, I used to work on Elgin Street and from my window, I used to hear the parade going down the street every single day. And it was always amazing to me sort of watching them all congregate, and every day was exactly the same. And I know that's the point of doing the whole parading and the practices.

But how much do those hats weigh? I have to know. 

Heath [00:04:58]

Yeah, they're actually surprisingly comfortable. So, when you get your bear skin cap - I mean it is a bit of course - but we size them and so you get it to fit quite well. And you'll learn through experience. what works and what doesn't.  The hardest part is just how hot it gets. So, when it gets like 30 degrees, 35 degrees with humidity in Ottawa, it can be quite a lot of sweat dripping in your eyes, but at the same time, the bear skin four covers your eyes so nobody can really see you. So, it's a bit of a mask. It's fun. I had a lot of fun doing it was a good experience.

Claudia [00:05:27]:

So, for all of the years that you've been in the military, both of you was it everything you thought it was going to be the 

Melissa:

For me, yes, I thoroughly enjoyed my time in the Canadian Armed Forces. 

I've seen some huge changes since I joined as Guardsmen, and then became a Master Corporal in the Infantry. That was quite an accomplishment for me. I was one of the first female Master Corporals with the Governor General's Foot Guards in quite a while - I think over five years. 

So, for me everything that I wanted to accomplish in the Canadian Armed Forces I have so far. So, for me, it's been a great, great job. 

Julie:

So, you guys were the reserves for a while before signing up for the Reg Force, what was the deciding factor to say okay, this is the career I'm going ahead with?

Heath [00:06:15]:

Before joining the Regular Force, we had a whole sort of civilian life, slash military life beforehand. And so, for me, you know, we both finished university and then we started to look for jobs.

So, I actually worked full time in the Reserves on a Class B contract. But Melissa, she was a public servant working for Defense Security Canada or CSIS at time

Melissa:

 Public Safety Canada.

Heath:

Yeah, Public Safety Canada.  And so, we were doing that right up into our late 20s. 

In looking at Public Service life and what that sort of entailed, it didn't really resonate with us in terms of what we were looking for life in terms of just leadership and challenge and really opportunities professional development. And so, I remember Melissa one time saying ‘hey, you know, what about going Regular Force?’ 

Now for me, that was fantastic news because I wanted to go Regular Force, but I - you know, it takes - it we have to do this together. So that was the decision we made when we were like 28 or 29 and then we ended up getting accepted and transferring over at 29 years old. But it was really when we joined the regular force. We knew what the military was, we knew we were getting into, and we wanted that lifestyle. And so, for us, it was it was what we wanted, and it turned out as we expected it would.

Claudia [00:07:28]:

Do you find it challenging as a dual service couple where you're both in the military? You each have your own respective individual careers. How do you juggle all of that? 

Melissa:

I would say it's a lot of coordination, especially at our ranks right now, because we're both Officer Commandings of companies. So, we do have a lot of conflicting priorities. 

And so, for me, really, it's knowing his schedule very well. And seeing where it conflicts with mine and then working with my Chain of Command to make sure that I've made all the priorities. Certainly, I'm very, very transparent with my company, and I let them know what's going on. If I'm having any familial issues, ten I I'm very open with them. And they're - it's also kind of gives it gives them or shows that I'm human as well. So, it also opens the door for people to come to me and talk about their issues. I'm very open when we work together to make sure we know what our schedules are.

Heath [00:08:25]:

As part of being a service couple of like anything else - there's lots of pros and cons. So, a really good thing is that because we're both in the military, we understand some of the experience and the challenges that the other person's facing and so we can get it. 

In fact, sometimes it's basically the opposite where we have too much military in our life, and we need to find other avenues because it's too much. You know, at certain points in our careers, we've been asked this question several times, you know, who's taking the back bench on your career path, right? And now Melissa and I have been very lucky in that we've been able to sort of keep moving forward and not have to truly like sacrifice one of our career progressions for the other. That may come one day, but we've been able to balance it. 

But the biggest thing - we were talking about this sort of before - several times in our life, you know, we’ve been asked how do we do all of this? We have just learned to accept the lifestyle and we can only ever plan a one year out. And that's it. And that lack of certainty, that lack of like, what's next on the horizon is something that we've just learned to live with. And that is a challenge to try to overcome sometimes - for sure.

Claudia [00:09:35]

you guys ever face the situation where there was a potential, you'd both be deployed at the same time? 

Melissa:

Actually, we were just talking about that before this podcast. I remember one time we were both supposed to go on Ex Maple Resolve. You know, this is up to three months away, right. And Maple Resolve is always the same timeframe - and your kids are at school. So, we had to write an email or letter requesting that we would be not on the exercise at the same time. And at that time, we did have a little bit of pushback from my chain of command especially, saying that well, the solution is clear here. Get a nanny. And I was like a nanny? How am I gonna pay for that? And it really it was not a good option for us. But thankfully, well, no thankfully – Well Heath could probably talk about the next 

Heath:

In that particular case, we kinda sidestepped that because I ruptured my Achilles tendon.  That took me out for a year. And so that made it easier in that regard.  

This has happened, you know, just as it worked out.   I'm in the infantry and Melissa's in Logistics. And so, when we are posting Petawawa – and just for background, we’ve been posted to Petawawa twice. We've lived through all for seven years in total. And almost every time, Melissa’s at the service battalion - one of the headquarters, and I'm in one of the Infantry battalions. And what that ends up meaning is that wherever we're going for both have to go there. And so, it has been a struggle sometimes where, you know, one of us had to stay behind.  

Generally, we've been very lucky in that we had chains of command that understood this and clearly only one of us could go. I know some families are you know, they're able to either hire a nanny or they have family, or they can come live. And we have good family support too. But it is a lot to expect of a family member to come and live in your house for three months to help the kids. And so, for us, we made the decision that even if it would cost career progression or career implications that we went both got away for such a long time. We've certainly done it for maybe a week or two max, but not any more than that

Julie [00:11:45]:

Have you ever had to be in a situation where one of you was posted and the other one wasn’t, and you had to do IR for a while? Or have you always been lucky enough to live in the same area.

Heath: 

We started off on IR. So, when we first enrolled, we lived in Ottawa at the time. And so, when we enrolled in the Regular Force, Melissa was accepted first. And so, she was posted IR to Trenton from Ottawa, and we did that for only a few months. But we've been very lucky.  Now maybe Melissa has a different memory than me, but I believe very lucky we never had to do a prolonged IR. We managed to not have to do that.

Melissa [00:12:20]:

I think on for IR I think I was accepted in February, and you were not accepted until October. So, it was quite - it was several months. But because of the proximity I was driving back and forth several times even like middle of the week to go to Ottawa. 

Claudia:

So how many times have you guys been posted in for the duration of your career so far?

Heath

Five times - our posting journey we've gone the bulk of it's been an Ontario during kind of like a triangle. So, we went from Ottawa to Trenton, Trenton to Petawawa and Petawawa to Kingston. And then while we were in Kingston, I was actually posted to Trenton again, but I would just I lived in Kingston, and I drove every day between Trenton and Kingston instead of going IR. I forgot about that one. That's one of the ones we did. And we came back to Petawawa and now Gagetown.   So primarily in Ontario, but most recently a year ago when we moved the Gagetown on that was our first inter provincial which has its own unique challenges for sure.

Julie [00:13:20]

You have you have kids how do you think that this life has affected them in a positive way or a negative way? And I think a lot of people just sort of always assume that it's going to be negative. But I know from my perspective, my kids have benefited a lot from the life that we have as a military family. 

Melissa:

There's definitely pros and cons.  For our kids I would say that it was more positive than negative. I feel that us moving that that many times has made our family unit a lot closer because they don't have friends in the beginning of their posting right. And as a result, we just tend to hang out more often together. 

So, I know for my daughter she really enjoys the military lifestyle and moving because you're moving to a different place to get a new house. We normally get them involved in - you know looking for home so we can make some more excited. She also just enjoys seeing the different areas right and she kind of she kind of figures out what she would like in the future for house-wise right or where she would like to live.

My son is a little bit different. I think he doesn't enjoy moving as much. He's a little bit he's way more shy than my daughter so it's a lot harder for him to make friends. He doesn't put himself out there to make friends.

Heath [00:14:35]:

I think the other side of military service and families is the day in /day out year of activities. That has been some struggles over the years. In amongst our postings, we've also gone through several deployments, multiple long periods away on exercises or on courses and that has certainly been some challenges, I think for the kids. 

 So, one of the memories that sticks with me, for example, right at the early days I had to go from Ontario to Gagetown on a long training course.  And so, for Dane, he's our - he's our youngest. He's our son. He was just starting to sit up on his own. I left him when I walked in. So, I missed a big chunk of that. And I remember him sort of latching on to my leg. And for years he had a bit of separation anxiety, I think he was my little buddy for quite some time. 

And what I found with kids is when we will go away, and we'll be like a single parent – or Melissa will be single parent - and kids generally are okay when the person is gone. The first week or two is hard, and they adapt and then we have our life. The hardest part was all the reintegrations over the years and coming back and getting used to being back together again. And all the emotions that kids I found they were fine and ultimately the parent came home and they went bananas.  They had all this emotion that just came out and including me too. I remember and Melissa and I were laughing about this earlier was that Melissa will come back and I would have this irrational anger towards her right.  I didn't even want to hug her when she is coming in the door because it'd be like you abandoned me.  Even though it's like I know that it's irrational. I knew it but I couldn't help myself. It took a few days and for me like okay, you’re back again.

Then all the other stuff that I’m sure Melissa can talk about what it's like come back as the mom into a house after she's been away for a seven-month deployment.

Julie [00:16:30]:

I think we're laughing because we all get it like we have all been there. I totally understand what you're saying. And I think it's interesting because I say tell these stories and my husband doesn't get it because he's never been on the other side. But by the same token, I've never been the parent coming back in and realizing I've missed this, or I didn't get that or have, you know a baby does not want to come to me because you know, they're a little standoffish. So, do you think it makes it easier sort of having seen both sides? You can sort of relate? 

Melissa [00:16:55]:

I'd say no, honestly even though I've been on both sides you kind of forget it's like.  You get – you’re so upset that he abandoned you - you are not upset that you - in the back of your mind you're upset about it. It's that reintegration it's very difficult. So, for me no, I don't think it helps at all, unless Heath if you disagree. 

Heath [00:17:15]:

Well like, like in terms of helping understand. For me what it is give me more of an understanding of what it's like being a single parent. So, it gives me a lot more empathy and understanding for other military people - or even non-military people - who when they're single parents, I understand the challenge that that presents. I think it helps me be a better leader or more aware of other people's circumstances for sure.

Claudia [00:17:40]:

You know, all of the challenges and struggles that you're dealing with when you come back from a long training or from a deployment. What do you do as a family to prepare? When you know you're going when one of you is going to be deployed? What do you do with your family at that point?

Heath [00:18:00]: 

Oh, good question. I'm trying to think of what... I'm not sure that we actively planned the separation, but certainly like leading up to it we make an effort to keep maybe going a mini trip or do something beforehand. Especially if t's a really long one. 

Primarily, the efforts are more like setting the house up. Like if was any little project that need to be done that we need two people to do we try to get those done first.  But then it's really sort of developing that routine and just learning to accept the fact that some things aren't going to be done, which can be hard so like your house is dirty. The lawnwork maybe isn't getting done the way it should be. You just have to live with it.

Claudia [00:18:45]:

Do you notice any changes or things that come out in the kids once say we're going to go through another deployment in a few months? Do you see patterns start to emerge before the deployment or is a lot of that stuff that you deal with at the back end and the reintegration part?

Heath:

I notice it in our sone Dane. So, they typically if we - and I know that Melissa is going away or I'm going to go like we’ll say hey, we're going to be going away. And you can just – he doesn’t really say but I can tell inside and he's a bit sad. And then as we get closer to you know the hugs get a little bit tighter. The children right now are 12 and 15. So things have changed quite a bit. I know when they're really young. I mean when the first summer went away, I remember Aveline being in the window like hands on the glass crying and I'm driving away going, Oh my goodness. You know, like this is - I was not prepared for this. So, it definitely is hard like those goodbyes can definitely be a challenge.  Leading up to it I found that the kids – at least our kids, you know, maybe little signs and symptoms, but it was when we were leaving.

Melissa [00:19:50]: 

Yeah. And it's only maybe a day before that we will really see it in the kids. Because then they they're kind of attached to our hip right. They will say Oh, I'm going to miss you. But for me and – if you’re the one staying behind - they're very, very emotional a couple of hours after the person has left. But then they kind of get used to it because they're very attached to us. We're essentially giving them more time, more of our space, like they’re more in our in our space. 

Julie [00:20:22]:

You talked about sort of getting into that routine. You've been in the military since like the early 2000s and how things are different. So, our first deployment with my husband, we wrote letters back and forth, and then we had occasional email. And now the sort of a generation or the ability that when you're on a deployment or when you're away being able to text, being able to FaceTime, being able to see your children. 

Do you think that makes it easier as the parent that's away - and on the flip side as a parent back home? Because I know for myself, that day that we do the FaceTime is always a tough day with the kids. So, it was really great for the parent on the other side to see them, but as the parents sitting back home, I was like this is setting us back again. Thoughts?

Heath [00:21:20]:

Things changed a lot. So, I mean, I remember in the early days having long distance card and calling Melissa the group phone. And I also remember deployments where you're only allowed to call once a week – and that was it - to now. I mean, I'm on my phone texting every day. How's it going, you know, including texting your kids and they're texting us so totally different.

I'm not sure Melissa is we ever experienced where we had to like the FaceTime brought up a lot of emotions because we had so much constant connectivity in the most recent days. We did have to do Christmas once where we had to do like a FaceTime for Christmas, which was awkward. But I’m not sure.  Melissa: did you have anything on that one? 

Melissa [00:21:40]:

I do recall being on Maple Resolve.  And for some reason, we're always gone for Dane’s birthday because Dane’s birthday is in May. And for him he gets the brunt of it all the time. And Aveline her birthday is during March break so generally we're there.  But for him he we've missed I think four or five of his birthdays. It's sad.

But I remember being in the cafeteria, eating breakfast, and calling him because I know I'm going to be in the field all day and I'll forget.  And singing him happy birthday in the cafeteria and everyone's looking at me and I have no shame because this is my time with my little buddy. Right. So, it is a challenge,

Julie [00:22:20]:

Heath, you are our first male guest. So, congratulations and thank you. Do you find it harder to connect with the rest of the military community? Sort of the spouse community or do you find how - how does that sort of play out for you?

Heath [00:22:35]:

Yeah, so, I mean, for me, I'm a pretty private person. So, I will admit, like I did not actively engage in some of those group activities. But I might have just sort of the way it worked out. 

So, in the early days when the kids were really young like one and three years old, and a lot of those times I was the one going away. And so, and I was the one that was away a lot longer.  Melissa’s course was really only a month so there's such a short period of time. You know, I was just busy surviving I didn't really have time to go out and do these extra things. But what I did get involved I got involved in coaching and things like this, which I found very, very fun. And a few occasions I'll go down that could be different MFRC’s we were involved in daycare and some of the activities there.  But I never really ended up having a need or I guess maybe I didn't take the opportunity to connect with spouse network. So that's me. Maybe I'm a bit of an isolationist person.

Melissa [00:23:40}: 

But I think though, Heath.  I was because we lived close to your family. So, you did have family support. Your mom would come down sometimes on weekends to just t to break the monotony of being alone with the kids. So, I think maybe that was to your advantage.

Julie:

 I think having that extra person there makes more difference than you realize at the time.  As somebody who's done the extended absences with my husband away. I don't think it's something that you can do by yourself. Like you need to sort of find those people to spot it and be that community with you. Otherwise, it just makes it so much harder.

Heath [00:24:15]:

Yeah, and you know, looking back on it, I probably didn't realize you know, I was probably going down to visit. Cause in all the times my mother, for example, and my brothers and both my family and friends they all live in Ottawa.  When you're in Petawawa, Kingston, Trenton - it’s a relatively short drive. Right. And as well, you know, we had friends in community and things like this. 

The I would say that is when I look back on it -that is definitely a challenge - is that in all the different moves it takes time to get settled and making friends. And generally, what we’ve found is just as you start making new friends – we’re posted again. And so…

Julie 

Or they're posted 

Heath:

Yeah, or they’re posted, right.  So that is a challenge and so I would rely on my family more for sure.

Julie [00:25:00]:

I remember one time running – because the military is small, right. So, you're always sort of running into somebody you haven't seen for like 15 years.  And my husband's famous for that. 

And he ran into a guy he had known, I guess in his earlier years when his kids were smaller.  And he had remarried somebody in the service and his wife was away. And he was like: Dude, it really is hard. Like they weren't like being the one at home. It is hard.

And I was like Thank you. Can you say that again? A little louder for the people in the back because I don't think he got that the first time around.

 How do you when you do the postings and the relocations, you say, like going through and meeting community, how do you meet community? How do you get involved? Do you have tips, or ways that have worked for you to say when you arrived in Gagetown to build that community, meet those people, find those things that make Gagetown more of a home than just a - you know - posting?

Melissa [00:25:48]:

I personally find it a challenge at my rank. I can't just hang out with my troops. So, for me, I would have to reach out to the other Majors and be able to get to know other people I'm not in charge of right. So, for me, I find that a challenge.

Definitely when I was in lower rank, just starting off I would need my neighbors because I was alone with the kids right? So, I would make sure to make a point to meeting my neighbors. I did have one of our neighbors that was retired which was great to have. Because if I needed a break, they would always offer to take care of the kids. So, for me that was good. Yeah, but as a senior officer, it's a little bit more difficult to make friends.

Heath [00:26:30]

I have relied on Melissa to be our networking person. So, she's excellent at this. And so maybe that's allowed me to not develop those skills.   By coming to New Brunswick, for instance, Melissa does a great job of reaching out to Facebook. 

So, we live in a town called New Maryland, which is just sort of South of Fredericton in New Brunswick and they have a huge Facebook group. And through those different connections, we were able to find out different local services for lawn care, or house stuff, or if you needed your driveway paved, whatever - all the house stuff.  But as well, friends for kids, you know you look around like we live in a subdivision here. And before in Petawawa we lived out more rural but here, you know people come knocking on your door because there's lots of military families around too and trying to connect the kids together. 

So that was very helpful. The biggest challenge though at the move in the different moves is finding healthcare. Healthcare is definitely a big challenge. The difference between Ontario and New Brunswick is big too, and Melissa you can talk about your experience in this one. 

Heath:

So, our daughter does suffer from anorexia nervosa, which has been a challenge. She's still struggling today. So, when we received her posting message to come to Gagetown, I was a little bit stressed out because at the time my daughter was at CHEO you know, recovering from anorexia. So, we had to figure out how we were going to set up services in Gagetown. So, I leveraged PMFRC, so Claudia helped me reach out to some folks in the MFRC here in Gagetown.  They were able to connect me to Integrated Support Services, which is essentially services that you can get through the counselors at school.  

So, I was the mama bear and I worked extremely, extremely hard to try to get a doctor because I was told that in New Brunswick, getting a doctor is slim to none - like your chances of getting doctor is zero. But I worked with a counselor, and she has set me up with the integrated services.  And there was a guy named Ryan - I forget his last name - and he has been my godson where he just set me up with a pediatrician. And then now my daughter is recovering today.  She's still in hospital today, but at least she’s getting the help that she needs.  And Heath and I are essentially juggling our very busy careers and spending some time at the hospital right now. It's very it's a challenge but we're doing it. 

And also, our Chain of Command has been very, very supportive. They understand our situation. That's one thing for the military, if you're very, very transparent with the Chain of Command, and if they understand what's going on, they will support you and that's been our that's been our experience so far. 

Claudia:

I think Melissa, you kinda hit the nail on the head. You have to be the Mama Bear. You have to be proactive and go out there and find it.   

New Brunswick is my second home, I’ve spent many, many years in the Gagetown/ Moncton area.  And they don't call that waitlist an orphan list for nothing. And I sat on that list for like four years. So, you know you really do have to be proactive and especially dealing with situations that you're dealing with. 

I'm happy to see that you got the support that you needed, and that you know your daughter is doing well. 

So, question for you both given the situation. You know, you're both serving in the forces. You're both in a leadership role. Do you find that makes you more understanding - a better leader for your troops?

Heath [00:30:13]:

Absolutely Yes. 

So, you know, I remember when I first went to join the Regular Force, the big thing, the message at that time was: You better have a family care plan.  If not, you're going to be in big trouble. And what I found a living through the experience over the years, where I had not activate a family care plan -  one of the things that I think is not fully understood sometimes, is that a family care plan is really helpful for a short duration problem. Like a family care plan to last like seven months or like a long time. It's much harder to do. 

And so, I found from just living some of these experiences that have a lot more empathy and understanding of like, some of the challenges. And this is where communication is very important. I've learned that even though it might be embarrassing, or maybe it might be you know, a little uncomfortable. If I would share what's going on with my Chain of Command. they were in a better position to help.  And I find the same thing with my soldiers, right.  And some of the problems that they come forward with are far more significant than anything. But it allows me to understand, you know, from within, and also some strategies to make – have you tried this and what can we do to help you?  It’s definitely made me a better leader.

Julie [00:31:30]

Dou find that the forces have changed since you started like over the last 20 years. Are people more receptive to talking about family issues more so than they were when you joined? 

Melissa:

Absolutely. I've seen a huge difference for the positive obviously, but I think it's because where the stigma for mental health has been - is starting to go away as well. And I think it's because people are talking about it. And we keep saying that our door is always open come on in but certainly if an OC talks about - an officer commanding talks about their issues openly- people are more willing to come up to you with their own issues. Because you know, we're human, we're not just a Major. 

Claudia [00:31:36]:
If you want to give other family members in your situation, what would be one word of advice that you would give them - and that's a question for each of you. 

Julie :

As a service couple?

Claudia:

As a service couple and / or as a spouse.

Heath [00:32:35]

The advice that I would give is that, like being in the regular military is a lifestyle. I guess what I mean is that in the military, the work definitely bleeds a lot more into your normal life than probably any other profession. And to survive it, you need to be okay with uncertainty. And you have to learn to let go and accept some of that.  Because otherwise it's going to be hard. Because you're going to receive last minute notification that you have to, your spouse or maybe yourself, has to go away for a long time. Or you may find out too that- I thought I was going to stay here for three years. I'm moving next summer now. This is at the heart of one of my view, like one of the biggest challenges is about uncertainty and learning to accept and live in it. Otherwise, it's going to be hard.

Melissa [00:33:24]

Yeah, I agree. I think that you know for Heath and I good about being service coupled is that at least we know what the other person is doing. So, if you are not a service couple, and you have a spouse, you know who's not military, then obviously you should talk about what you do on a daily basis. Explain what exercises are.  Because I've heard some spouses who don't even know what they're with, you know, the military partner is doing So definitely be open. 

 Like Heath said, you don't know what's happening next year. So just be okay with that. Be happy that you're gonna get Christmas off regardless - if you're not if you're not overseas - but you know that you can have a trip at that time. 

 So, I think if you're positive about things and you have kids, if you're positive, then the kids are going to be excited about the move but if you're upset about it, then your kids are going to be upset about it.

Julie:  

Every once in a while, I'll see on a spouse group, someone saying like, I can't find a job here. I'm thinking of joining the service. There's a lot of comments from it's a great idea to absolutely doubt not, don't do it, never do it, run now. And I must admit I sort of went back and forth about you know, maybe I will join the service and maybe that sort of like the career path for me. 

If someone's just starting out on sort of like thinking about it, what are the ones what are the things that they should consider what are the points that they should maybe think about before they make that decision?

Heath [00:34:50]:

We've only known what it’s like being service a couple - and I can only guess what it's like not being of course. But I think that the one of the biggest things has to do is if you both join the military, you're increasing your uncertainty. Because you have both members now - you have double the chance someone's going to get put away now. But by both being there, it also gives you a much more shared understanding which might actually help the relationship on the family side of it. 

And as well the Chain of Command is sometimes in a better position to balance the two.  Because sometimes – and I have had peers and other members where you know, one member is in the military and the other one has a pretty important job outside of the military. And it can sometimes be much harder to kind of balance it because the military has no influence. 

But as a positive it is much less likely that civilian employment is going to require you to go away a lot. Usually not always. So, it is like a one big benefit is that if you're one military member and one non-military member- chances are the non-military members always going around geographically. If you're both in the military, you know, it's sometimes easier to like get Chain of Command help to sort through your challenges, but you will have a more tumultuous life.

Melissa [00:36:15]:

So, what I've seen in Gagetown is a lot of folks going to Reserves.  So, we have the spouse who decides Hey, I don't want to do full time, but I want a reservist position - and it can do the class B. And there are several positions in different locations. 

In Gagetown right now there's not a lot, but there are a lot if say you’re in Ottawa so that that's an option. 

Julie:

Is there anything that we should have asked you that we did? last parting advice or sort of or words of wisdom?  Heath you’re our first male guest 

Claudia:

Our first CAF male member? 

Julie:

Yeah, exactly.

Heath [00:36:45]

That’s a nice honour. I I'm very - I'm actually quite happy to be here. And in talking about some of these things, you know, to offer a male perspective or a dad perspective. It has been a very good life experience being a single parent, because it makes you understand how hard that can be - the challenge that it can be with it. 

And I mean, really, the best advice I could have in the military lifestyle you need to enjoy today. Because it's really hard, you know all the tests are coming into the future. So, you definitely become a lot more in the present. And if you can learn to adapt that way, you will have -- I think -- a much more enriching experience. 

Melissa [00:37:23]:

I don't really have much else to add. I know that for me being where I'm at in my career now, I oftentimes talk to some of my friends who are civilians, and then they talk about oh, I've stayed in this area forever. So, I have the little jealousy, you know, monster coming in and going on. Well, I wish I would have had those connections or those roots, right. But then I think about all the amazing things that I’ve done with the Canadian Armed Forces. So, I am I'm very happy. 

I don't have any other parting words except for - the Military is a great, great place to work for. It's a great, great opportunity and great experience, so I wouldn't have done anything different. 

Julie:

Thank you. I really appreciate you joining us and telling us your story. 

There are so many military family members out there, and so many things that they can add and perspectives that they have learned. So, it’s always nice to be able to pass the mic over and have somebody else share their experiences and the lessons they've learned along the way. 

 Thank you both for joining us. We appreciate you taking the time