Our conversation with Kayla Lamrock

In this April edition of our Military Family Life podcast - in honour of the Month of the Military Child - we are focusing on Military children.

 Kayla Lamrock has experience as a military child, a military spouse and working at an MFRC with children and youth.

In this episode Kayla talks about her experiences of deployments and postings from the perspective of a military family member.  She also talks about what it is like to support a loved one with an operational stress injury, and the work she does now to support youth navigating the challenges of military family life.

 Finally, Kayla gives advice to parents on how they can support their children through challenges.

Trigger warning:  In this conversation we touch on topics such as PTSI and suicidal thoughts.  Please listen with care.

About our guest:

Born to an Infantry soldier, the military lifestyle was all Kayla knew. At thirteen, Kayla recalls what it was like to move away from Petawawa, her military community, and into a small town where being from a military family was much different from the experiences of her peers. 

Now, with a diploma in Early Childhood Education and a degree in Family Studies & Sociology, Kayla advocates for and provides support for military youth navigating the unique challenges of this lifestyle. 

Most recently, Kayla has been on the advisory board for the development and implementation of Mind Kit, a website for youth and a Suicide Prevention & Intervention Guide for military families.

 Learn more about Mindkit a space for youth to explore the topic of mental health. It was created by the Atlas Institute with young Family members of Canadian Veterans living with a posttraumatic stress injury (PTSI). https://mindkit.ca

Transcript

Julie [Intro]:

Welcome to Military Family Life, the podcast for Canadian military family members - by military family members. Do you ever wish you had a guidebook or mentor to help you with some of the challenges you're facing as part of a military family? Each episode we're going to bring you the stories of people who have been there, they're going to share the lessons that they've learned along the way to help you live your best military family life.

Julie [00:00:28]: 

Hi, and welcome to Military Family Life. My name is Julie Hollinger. As you may know, April is the Month of the Military Child. So, for this month's episode, we really wanted to focus on what life is like for those folks who have grown up in Military families. We're talking this month to Kayla Lamrock. Kayla was born to an infantry soldier and grew up in Petawawa. The military lifestyle was all that she knew. When she turned 13, Kayla moved away from Petawawa. Away from her Military community, and into a small town where being from a Military family was much different than the experiences that she had had in the past.

Today, as an adult, Kayla has a diploma in Early Childhood Education, and a degree in Family Studies in Sociology.  And she's using her experience and her education to advocate for - and to provide support for - Military youth who are navigating those same unique lifestyle challenges that she went through. Challenges like deployment, like relocation, and like transition when your parent moves out of the Military, and you are all of a sudden part of a civilian family. This conversation was incredibly open, and we appreciate how honest Kayla was in sharing her feelings, and her experiences. I know that Claudia and I learned so much from this conversation, and we really hope that you enjoy it. 

Before we move ahead, I do want to let you know that we do touch on a number of difficult topics in this conversation. We talk about PTSD. We talk about suicidal thoughts. So, we wanted to let you know so you could listen with care. My co-host Claudia Beswick and I really hope you enjoy the conversation that we had with Kayla Lamrock. 

Thanks again for joining us here on Military Family Life. This podcast we are doing for the month of April, for Month of the Military Child, and we're very excited, as we said in the intro, to have Kayla Lamrock joining us. Kayla, welcome to the podcast. It's nice to have you with us.

Kayla: 

Thank you so much.

Julie: 

We're just going to ask you to introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about who you are, what your background is, and what's your connection to the Military?

Kayla [00:02:24]: 

Hi everyone. So excited to be here. I am Kayla, and I grew up on the base in Petawawa, actually. So, this feels like a full circle moment for me. I uniquely spent twelve years in Petawawa due to my dad's job. He was an infantry soldier. 

Yeah, so it was a unique experience to spend that much time in the 90s, where people were coming and going quite frequently. From there, I moved to Meaford, Ontario, which was a very different environment than Petawawa is. Petawawa is operational. There's a lot moving and grooving, but Meaford is a training centre, and it was a very different culture to move into after leaving such a strong Military community. From there, I continued my connection with the Military. I volunteered with the MFRC here in Medford, then London, ON. Decided to go to university. And then moved to Halifax, NS, where my partner and I, who was also Military, decided to live for the next 10 years. So, I had a lot of connection to the bases in Halifax, as well, and now I'm back in Meaford, again. Full circle moments happening.

Claudia [00:03:47]: 

It's awesome. You can really see the, the path of that military lifestyle going from one end of the country, almost to the other. Although, I mean it's, it's a lot of moving, but 12 years in Petawawa, that's, that's pretty good. Did you enjoy it?

Kayla: 

Yeah, I mean, I knew nothing different as a child. That was my home. That's where I grew up, and growing up on a base, and in the community, was what I knew to be completely normal. So yeah, we had fun. We played in the Ottawa River, and went camping and, in those days, we had really awesome family days, and I can remember my dad coming and going off of deployment. We used to have huge parties, and they would get on the bus, and try and make it really enjoyable, and exciting, and fun. Even though we know the intricacies of deployment can be difficult.  I can remember it being almost like a party in the reunions and the departures. So yeah, it wasn't until moving here to Meaford, that between 12 and 13, that I started to realize, “Oh, I'm a little more unique. And I've lived a different lifestyle than some of the people that are outside of the Military.”

Julie: 

So, doing a little bit of math in terms of when your time in Petawawa was, did you go to school on base?

Kayla [00:05:12]: 

Yes. Yeah. So, I went to Rivercrest, which then turned to Saint Francis of Assisi. Yeah, and no longer exists now.

Julie [00:05:22]:

So, if you lived on base, you went to a Military school, you probably didn't have a lot of connections with people whose parents weren't in the Military? So, you know, when you moved to Medford, was it a bit of a, a jump to sort of realize that other people didn't quite live the way you did?

Kayla [00:05:37]: 

Absolutely. For the very first time, I was asked why my dad carried a gun. And that was a question I had never considered. I knew I had been in tanks; I had ridden in tanks. He had taken us around. He had showed us the equipment, we'd put on the vests and the helmets, and we had done all the fun things. But we had never made the connection to what those things were actually for. 

In my mind, my dad was, is, a hero, and he was going overseas to protect people, and to protect children. And I sent pencils. And I sent colouring books, and candy, and we did the shoebox project at school to send stuff at Christmas time. And that's how I, I knew, and that's what I knew was the Military. And then I moved to Meaford, and they were questioning me about, “Why does he carry that? How many people has your dad killed?” And for the first time in my life, I was like, I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. My dad is a hero. He's not somebody that goes and hurts people or does bad things. So, that was really difficult. And I really struggled with that. And I started questioning him, and there was anger, and frustration, and confusion. And I was continuing to get questions like that. So, I finally, a school project... somehow, I made the connection with the school project, and I said to my teacher this is what I'm doing my project on. It was something that had happened in Afghanistan, and I said I really want to bring my dad in, and I want to talk about this, and I want to educate on this, because I don't have the answers that they're looking for. 

And so, my dad came in as my “Exhibit A” and that helped build the connection, and build that, that bridge between the questions that my peers had, and the lifestyle that I had lived. Around that time, my dad was also diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And I was starting to notice that I had, now, civilian friends who hadn't experienced the things I did. That could run across the grass, who didn't have to think twice about sitting in a restaurant, didn't have to announce themselves walking into the room, didn't have to tiptoe around things, and they were just normal dads. And like, I had thought, until I realized that things were a little different in my situation compared to my friends.

Julie [00:08:17]: 

Do you think that, I mean, obviously moving to a different environment, and having a different class, but also at the age of 13, you're understanding of, of your environment is changing, and you're really, you know, developmentally, just going from, you know listening to and accepting everything your parents are saying, to all of a sudden this, and starting to understand the world in a different way? So, I probably was a little bit about sort of that teenage angst, on top of this whole new environment, and friends are more important when you sort of get to that age group versus, you know, when you, when you're a little bit smaller. So, do you think that that also sort of helped play a part in it?

Kayla: 

I think so. I mean, of course, but I can also remember being on base, and I mean we did move off of base. We moved into like the town of Petawawa when I was, I think six or seven. So, I kind of had the experience of both. But because my friends, they were all Military, it was completely normal to walk into a house and see a rucksack and boots. That their dad would be here today, gone tomorrow. Getting phone calls saying, “Hey, can I come to your house? Because my mom's going take my dad back to the airport.” Like, these were normal things. 

When, when there was anger or, like, not running across the grass, or staying within arms reach in a big crowd, like those were things my friends at the time were also experiencing. So, it wasn't unusual for us to go for sleepovers, and one of our dads, predominantly, especially in the 90s, to have an outburst from PTSD, or, or say something, like, “You have to eat all of your dinner that I just served you because there's kids that don't eat.” So, here in Petawawa, when those, in Meaford, sorry, when those things were happening, my friends were shocked. There was culture shock for them. I'd bring a friend over and my dad would be angry, or he would make comments that to us were completely normal, and to my military friends, were completely normal. But now my friends are experiencing fear. They don't want to spend time with me. They don't want to come to my house. They're telling me they're afraid of my dad. They're telling me that my dad's very angry. And then, so, I think beyond just regular teenager stuff, my friends were showing me that, “What is going on in your house isn't the experience that we have in our homes” necessarily.

Claudia [00:10:44]: 

When you, when you talk a bit about some of the changes that you had to deal with going from Petawawa to Meaford, we know that relocation for families is really challenging, right? You know, you you're not necessarily near your immediate family, and you rely a lot on extended family. But, as a youth - because you would have been in teenager years when you went to Meaford - were there other things that you struggled with because you had to move outside of making new friends in school? Like it's an entire… The whole environment, right, is very different between Petawawa and Meaford, where Petawawa has so many Military people in the community, not just on base. Yeah, and Meaford has a very small base. So, what are some of the other challenges that you felt as a youth when it came to having to move to a whole brand-new place?

Kayla [00:11:39]: 

So, one that's kind of stuck out to me recently, actually, is my lack of coordination. And part of that is me being just a human, and my personality. But, looking back, we didn't have a whole lot of opportunity for sports, and extracurriculars, and stuff. They didn't have time for that at schools. We were so transient on the base, and the people to run those programs were also transient. So, I didn't grow up doing dance and gymnastics. My dad was always away. My mom didn't drive. And then when we moved into town, we didn't have access to those. 

So, now as an adult on a fitness journey, and exploring new types of movement. So, for example, if you go and do a lunge on your right side, to stand up and shift to your left side, that is something, that kind of athletic coordination is something you would have learned at a young age in sports. But I didn't have that experience in sports, so it's some like, something that simple that takes me a moment to figure out that coordination. What way to move my body, what side I'm on. And I think that was because of my experience growing up on a base, where we didn't have accessibility to that. And so, now, coming into a community where those things existed, for example, when I came here in Grade 7, everyone had been playing an instrument since grades two or three, and I had no musical experience whatsoever. I had never even touched an instrument aside from a piano somewhere, maybe in someone’s house. 

So I can see skills, like, that now, even that just, they weren't there. The pool on the base was very basic. We met the curriculum, and we did really awesome things. I can remember them bringing flying kitchens for pancake lunch, and you know, like, so we did really cool things - tanks on PA days. And, so there were just, we, we, we had different priorities and different focuses. You know, those reunions like they would take the whole school to a reunion, if there was something big going on. So yeah, but now, looking back, there's like skills that I can see, like, are in schools now, were in schools where they have the ability to implement those programs. And potentially it's changed in the area now with some more consistency, but yeah, that lack of consistency, and the ability to run extracurriculars, and programs like that, I can see reflected in life now. And I think, at the time, I probably didn't notice too much. I was like, these people are weird, like everyone's got a violin or a viola. Like what? And then slowly I just, I learned that that's actually quite common, that it was uncommon that I didn't have the, the instrumental experience.

Julie: 

I can't imagine you'd be overly popular in a PMQ, with your kids learning the violin.

Kayla [00:14:49]: 

Yeah, exactly. And trying to, yeah, like, move a piano? Like, no, that's not something we do.

Julie: 

I know how much I hate listening to my kids play the recorder, so I'm just like, oh, I can't imagine it PMQ listening to your neighbor’s kid.

Claudia [00:15:01]: 

Yeah.

Julie: 

You talked about the fact that, you know, you were in Petawawa. There was, like, highly, highly deployable years while you were probably a little bit uncommon being the one kid that didn't move, you probably saw a lot of your friends go, but you, you also said you experienced a lot of deployments in those years. Do you think that going through those deployments in a Military school where everybody else was there? How many deployments did you go through, and do you think that being with other Military kids helped that?

Kayla [00:15:32]: 

Yes, 100%. So, my dad deployed seven times, one was before I was born. So, I experienced six with him, and then two with my partner. And there's a specific story that I want to mention. So, if I forget, circle me back. Yes, definitely. Because it was so normal, and like I mentioned, my mom didn't drive, but we never went without groceries. When she was sick, we had family member, not family members, but like friends that become your family members, they would just show up with food. Like, there was a KFC. They would go, OK, go to KFC and bring us KFC for dinner. Like, it was truly a community. They would take her for groceries, if we needed something, they would come and get us. 

I remember I broke my arm at school, and it was a family friend that came and got me with her, and he took us to the hospital because my dad was away, and she didn't drive. And that's, that's what it's like when you grow up that way. Your friends aren't just friends, there's an extra level there, for sure. The experience of being on a base while everyone else around me was moving gave me the resiliency that other military children have from moving around so much. It gave me the ability to make friends quickly, and even moving here, and even my friendships, now, I can make a friend very, very quickly. But again, it's, it's a little bit transient. 

There's my best friend in the world, who's civilian, she knows that like, I lived in Nova Scotia for 10 years, and we met when I moved here. And she knows that sometimes I'm just, like, on a different track, and then I circle back, and she can recognize that in me because that's how it was. Like, I had friends that moved away. So, it was like, I love you here and now, and I still love you from afar. But sometimes there's just a different path that we take. 

The experience I wanted to mention with my partner's deployment, was it was his second deployment, and I was working at the MFRC at the time, so, there was a little bit of where I could seek support like balancing where I found that support. And, also being an employee, so being a source of support. And that was OK, but I, I didn't lean into the support and be completely open and vulnerable within this group of other spouses because I was also representing the MFRC, so I couldn't be 100%, and I had to find that balance, which I did. So, it was nearing the end of the deployment, and I had been told a specific date by my partner, by my job, like, who knows, of course. And, so that date was in my mind, and I went into it knowing that it would be that date, or after. It would never be before that date. Of course, why would you ever think it would need to before that date? And, if you've been through a deployment, you know you never expect sooner. 

And so, I was in Superstore and just grabbing some groceries we had about four or five days left.  I knew that they were en route home. And it's going to make me emotional. The girls called and they said the ship is coming home tomorrow. He was in the Navy, and I said, “No, no, no, no. It's just a rumor. Don't buy into it. There's no way. It doesn't make sense. We still have four or five days.” And they're like, Kayla, they're coming home tomorrow. I said, “Where did you hear this?” And they said, “My partner just called.” And I said, “No, no, no.” And then finally, my partner got to the phone. And he called me, and he said, “I'll be home tomorrow.” And honestly, I, I collapsed in Superstore. The, the fact that it could possibly be sooner than… you are in a place of strength. You're wearing that armor, you're pushing through, and you've got nothing left, but you're still pushing. And to hear something like that. That's so unheard of. It was almost, like, it wasn't real and that truly shook me. And it's, that's the interesting part about being an Army brat, and then a spouse, is in all of my experience, I'd never experienced that. And then that really shook me. I couldn't even process something so wonderful happening. And then after, of course, I got excited. But it was a very, it was eye-opening to me, to see how strong that armor is, and how we mentally prepare for these things, and to have that, that, that moment where that's almost shattered. The strength that you built up, and then you're rocked in some kind of way was, yeah, a unique experience, and an experience that was different because of the environment that I was in as well.

Claudia [00:20:49]: 

I think too, you know, that when you're, when you work for an MFRC, and you're, you're there to support the families through these unique challenges, specifically with things like deployment or mental health supports, and you're actually going through the same thing yourself. I don't think a lot of people realize how many additional layers of strength that, that you actually need, right? Because you don't, it's hard to show your vulnerability and come at it from the same professional lens when you're working with the other families. So, kudos to you. And for those that may not know, 99.9% of the time when you're told your partner is coming home, they're always late. It's never the day. It's, it's very seldom the day before. It's usually typically the day out. Like days, sometimes after that. So...I think, thanks for sharing that story. And I, I can see where it's very emotional, and still something that is meaningful for you, right? It's definitely an armor that you wear.

Kayla:

Yes, yeah, for sure.

Julie [00:21:55]: 

Listening to your story, I can sort of think in my head. I think, I'd be sort of like, excited, but then also like, I don't know what to do with the emotion because, that, bubbles up. And then also, I have so many things I have to get done before he gets back to our house...

Kayla: 

Yes.

Julie: 

Would also be in my head because…

Claudia: 

There's a timetable for everything.

Julie: 

I’e got a lot of things I got to get done, so he thinks this is going as well as it is. I think, as a Military spouse, I totally in my head can sort of see that, but I wonder if you haven't lived this life, and you have it sort of understood what that is, whether you be like, “Well, it's just good news.” Like, why is it, and like, what's, what's the emotion? Isn't this exciting? Yeah. 

I really hate watching those reunion videos. The Member comes back and surprises their spouse, and I always… Don't do that to me. Like, I don't know what my emotion. I am not a woman who loves a surprise, and I don't think I would know what to do with my emotion there. Like, it's just I kind of always feel bad for that person who looks somewhat shattered in that moment. And then people are watching you, wanting to know how you're reacting. No, absolutely.

Kayla [00:22:55]: 

Yeah. Yes, I agree with you. I completely agree.

Claudia: 

Kayla, do you think that your experience as a Military child has helped you sustain a more stable family life, or do you find it completely different now as a spouse?

Kayla: 

Oh, that's a good question.

Julie [00:23:14]: 

Because I know that Claudia has often said that, you know, she married a Military person, but it's not like she knew what she signed up for, because her mother's experience, her mother kind of like, kept a lot from them trying to make things better from the kids. So, you don't really know in the same kind of way.

Kayla [00:23:30]: 

So, we have actually since separated, but with a lot of love. So, we, after his second deployment, he was diagnosed with severe PTSD, as well as severe depression. We spent our newlyweds… so the reason …OK. 

When we chose to get married, like he proposed, and we chose to get married, and then we got word that he would be deploying within six months. We know, when it comes to the Military, if you're common law, there's not as much, like, many resources and care as you as next-of-kin. As the actual next-of-kin is. So, we said, well, if you're going on deployment, we have to get married, so everyone's taken care of and protected. And that was our plan anyway. 

So, we rushed a wedding, and we spent our newlywed making wills, and planning for funerals. And what would happen if, and what those things look like, and how we would take care of his family and our nieces and nephews. And, and also, in the Navy, they're called work-ups. That's what you do six months prior to a deployment. So, this was about 3 months after that original notice that he'd be deployed that it said you weren't going on this ROTO, you would go on the next ROTO, so we got a little bit more time, but yeah, so we got married within three months. And then he did six months of work up. So, he was gone, training. He missed his brother's wedding because of it. Yeah. Then he went on deployment. And there were two events that happened on that deployment that ultimately led to his diagnosis, amongst the moral injury, and everything that we know the Military lifestyle for a member. 

So, when he came back, then we like, that was our first anniversary. He was on deployment. And by our second anniversary, he couldn't leave our basement. He was shut down. He was in a cave, as I describe it, with not a lot of light shining for him. So, the life that we had imagined and envisioned washed away quite quickly due to the Military experience, and his diagnosis, and how he was cared for after. And then COVID hit, which isolated him even more and, it was just, he got dealt kind of a crappy hand in terms of support and resources. And also, he wasn't ready to accept the resources that were being handed to him. So, I think having experienced PTSD, and the Military lifestyle, none of it was shocking to me, which is sad in a way. But also, I'm grateful for that experience, that the behaviors he was exhibiting, and the symptoms I was able to notice right away. Like, I knew what was happening, there was never a question in my mind of what is going on here. I knew quite quickly. 

The part that I wasn't expecting, or wasn't prepared for and didn't have the community for, was how suicidal he would be, and what that would do to me, to have to care for somebody who no longer wanted to live. And there was no amount of experience that could have prepared me for that, or supported me through, somebody in such isolation. And then in turn I was being isolated. And this fear of, ‘Do we call the MPs?’, and what that means for his career and his job, and the men that he worked with, and women, of course. But I think as a man, he was very concerned about what his male peers and how they would react to that. Do I call the regular police and then have it filtered back to the Military and affect his career in some way? Do I try and get him help and support and treatment that he isn't wanting to get? I'm being told that if I do that, he's going to do something worse. So, it was a very difficult, this situation with, with him being so ill, and then also attached to the Military. There again, there's so many layers to that and it's when you sign up to be in the Military, you really, truly, they become number one, and they have a level of ownership over your life, and that's both good and bad. That's the reality of it. So, trying to navigate supporting this person while also trying to fight the system and provide support for him without the Military just writing him off, also. 

He still wanted to do his job. He was good at his job. He had, it had become who he was as well, that Military identity, what he knew to be. And he was in 10 years, so enough time that he had established himself and was moving forward in his career. And so how do you fight for support but also navigate, you know, jeopardizing a career or something like that, saying the wrong thing? So yeah, I think. The Military experience definitely gave me the strength. It made me more resilient. It made me, gave me the understanding, having lived through it, but also personally, why again, why did I have to go through it again? What is going on here? Like I mean, and that's ultimately why I decided to step away from the MFRC because it had become every aspect of my life. My personal life, my marriage, my friendships, my career, my childhood, and I was missing them as a support. So, in order to receive the full amount of support, I couldn't also, like we discussed, be an employee. So, I had to step away and receive the love and support from my community again, as well.

Claudia [00:30:22]: 

Thank you for, for sharing that story. And I know, so it's not an easy short sort to share, and it's definitely a challenging situation that you're in. What do you think that the Military community could do better to support families, particularly when it comes to dealing with PTSD? Because, you know, every community is different. I'm sure even, you know, the resources that were available to you in Halifax may not be as prevalent as the resources that are available to you in Meaford. You know, and this isn't like a ‘one and done’ thing. This is something that's going to be ongoing. It's a journey that you're going to continue because you're, you're still connected. So, what do you think the, the community could do better to support families when it comes to things like that?

Kayla [00:31:12]: 

I think, and this is coming from the lens of a Navy spouse. So, I haven't experienced this as a spouse of an Army or Air Force Member or other, but, so, when you have a ship, and all the Members have been picked and put in positions on that ship, they get different, like briefings on, you know, MFRC, OSSIS, Transition Centre, all the different moving parts that we experience, will receive support from as well as their mission briefings, and all of the things. And the problem is that information is not often relayed or not easily relayed to the families. So, it's going to the Members, it's going in one ear and out the other, or they're filling out paperwork. They have so much paperwork, so understandable, they may not have their spouse’s e-mail address. They might not have a spouse at the time. They might get the phone number wrong. They're just zombies filling out endless amounts of paperwork. Get this crap done. We don't want to do the paperwork, totally fine and understandable. However, if the MFRC doesn't receive the family members information on that, those papers, they're at a loss. They can only contact who they have the contact information for. So, that's the biggest disconnect I found as a spouse, and as an employee was connecting to the family. So, we need to take that, like, get those Members filtering this information to the families. 

The more information that families have, the more equipped they will be, more support for spouses, more recognition for the experiences that are happening behind closed doors. Once upon a time, I think, that was huge and very prevalent. And slowly we've seen less and less people coming out for events, and, you know, lives are really busy and more spread out. Now, we don't have that same tight knit communities, which is why I think it's so important that we're in the school system in some capacity, sharing those resources with our Community Schools. In Rec Centres really integrating ourselves into the civilian community, because we don't have that Military community circle as much anymore. Our circles are much more diverse, much more spread out. Things are moving to online. 

So, how are we tapping in? Where are our people? Because they still exist. They're just more fluid in the community, right? So, I've actually been working with Atlas Institute for Veterans and Families, and we've developed a guide for suicide prevention and intervention. I'm going to get this wrong, so we'll fact check it and put it in the description, but with mental health support, and so, the guide having sat on the advisory for, it is everything that I wish I would have had in those dark moments. Something to rely on, tell you what's normal, tell you what's not normal, how to navigate next steps. Something tangible you can hold and see and feel like, OK, this is, you know, you're putting on that helmet, and you're moving forward. I remember, I did, I think it was a presentation in university and I describe being a Military family member, you know, we have the same amount of kit. It looks a little different. We do the same kind of training we are you know, we experience these deployments as well. And what that means as a child, and a spouse, and how we prepare for that. We've got a helmet; we've got a vest. We've got boots and we put it on, and it takes a little longer sometimes for us to take it off again, so....

Claudia: 

Atlas is a really great resource, and I just want to say that we, we sat in on the conference that they had where everybody was sharing their stories last month and it's, it's just a phenomenal resource. So, congratulations on being part of the advisory group to get that workbook together.

Kayla [00:35:42]: 

Thank you.

Julie [00:35:43]: 

I'm going to put the link to that in in the show notes, so if that's what you're interested in finding more about it, check out the show notes and I'll make sure that the information is there so you can access that if you need it.

You talked about going to university and working at the MFRC. You, you're at your education. Your background is working with children and youth, and that puts you sort of in a unique position when you're dealing with, with Military kids. So, your expertise as being a, a child and youth worker, your knowledge about child development, but also still knowing what it's like to be a Military kid.

It's Month of the Military child and we are celebrating military children across Canada. But I think one of the things we also know is that as, and, and I know personally as a parent, I didn't live it as a kid. So, like you, how you're always wondering, am I explaining this properly? Am I giving too much information? Am I giving not enough information? What is your advice for parents who are maybe struggling with how do I prepare my kid for the best possible future as a military kid, without maybe necessarily making them more worried than they need to be?

Kayla [00:36:52]: 

Yeah, absolutely. A fun story. So, I started, I did one position at the Halifax MFRC, and I had, I was in the infant room, so, like 0, but typically around nine months to 18 months. And I had one little girl who was probably about 13-months, and she would bring me a book, that was just a regular book, and she'd bring it over and she'd say, “Daddy boat, Daddy boat,” because she knew Daddy was on the boat so, even as young as 13 months, your child understands, they can grasp it at their level. So, so talk to them. Tell them, be open in a way that is at their level. So, if it's a little less “Daddy's on the boat,” or, you know, “Dad is in the Navy,” and this is what the world is experiencing, or mom, or uncle, or family member. 

Children are so, so, so incredibly resilient. They have got this. They've probably got this better than you or I, and the spouse. You know, they can do it. They will come out with flying colours because they will adapt, and they will learn, and they will come out with so much insight and information. Because they don't know different in that environment. This is when you experience this. You're just doing it every single day. You just do it like it's an everyday thing. My sister, what she felt was very in the dark, and she speaks about this as well, as a younger sister. And she, we wanted to protect her. She was the younger sister. She was the baby. We didn't want her knowing all the bad stuff. Especially when it came to PTSD. She knew, she felt that she could pick up on the energy. She knew something wasn't right, and nobody was telling her. And then she was getting frustrated. And why aren't they telling me? Why can't I know? Why am I being left in the dark, feeling isolated, feeling abandoned? So, I think the number one thing is just talk about it, open the space for questions. You don't have to get it right. You're not going to get it right. They will figure it out. And when they have questions, they will ask, give space for that. When they're old enough to read and write, whether it's texting or emailing, do it over e-mail. If you're finding your child doesn't want to talk about it, doesn't want to have that sit down conversation, send them an e-mail, send them a text.

Give them the ability to ask the question and then reply in a way that meets them where they are at. I've heard of families writing in a journal, so you can write it in a journal, like a journal entry. Give the journal to them. They can read it and reply and give the journal back. It allows for them to be open. To think about it and takes the pressure off of them having to say the right thing in the moment to have the answers. 

For me, personally, I took a lot of responsibility. I knew - and this was never said out loud, of course - but when dad wasn't around, I did the dad thing. So, you know, I took that on because I knew that it was something that was needed and no one ever told me not to. No one ever said you don't have to do that. I saw that mom needed me to do that, and I stepped up and I did it. So, where can you as a parent take that pressure off? Where are they stepping up? Where are you noticing you're lacking and they're doing more? And not in a huge way, but you know, where are those things happening and how can you alleviate some of that? How can you appreciate that even maybe they want to, and maybe you appreciate the help? So, saying, “Hey, I noticed you doing this.” This is typically mom’s dad and she's gone her dad's job and he's gone. How can I help you or how can I, you know, maybe you get an extra dollar for your allowance? Really, truly meet them where they are at. They are so intuitive and can pick up on so much, that allowing them the space to be where they are and coming into that space can be all the difference.

Claudia [00:41:37]: 

I know that part of what Julie wanted to chat about today was also, April is Month of the Military Child.

Kayla: 

Yeah.

Claudia: 

So, I have a question for you. How can individuals and communities show their appreciation and support for military children during Month of the Military Child, and perhaps even beyond the month of April? What would you like to see in a community?

Kayla: 

In a community…

Claudia: 

Or what, even as an individual can do, you know, there's a lot of even individuals in the community that are not part of the Military life, but they have a lot of respect and appreciation. So, what can individuals do on their own? What can community organizations do that would really provide the, to talk about how important it is, and how we can continue to celebrate Month of the of the Military Child? Yeah, it is getting a lot more recognition now, being socialized a little bit more for the month of April. So, what would you like to see from the community?

Kayla [00:42:42]: 

I think any amount of recognition is wonderful. I had a moment, somewhat recently, where I was having a conversation, and the difference? The biggest difference is, our parents who decided to join the military, were adults and made that conscious decision - We didn't. There isn't a Military kid on this planet that decided, ‘Hey, I'm going to be a military kid today.’ You know? We were just kind of catapulted into the life, and we do the best we can with what we're given, and like I said, we're resilient. We're intuitive, we're strong. We make the best of it. So, acknowledging that, you know, showing that appreciation. 

And I think there's a lot of, especially for my generation, and I can imagine for generations growing up right now, there's a lot of conflicting morality when it comes to the Military. We're experiencing things in the world that we don't necessarily agree with, or that are causing internal conflict. How do we, as Military children, identify with that, and be proud of our parents, and be proud of our country, while also maybe not agreeing with some of the things that are happening, or the decisions that our government, or policies are creating or asking our Members to do? So, more conversation about that. 

More when it comes to Remembrance Day, what wearing the poppy symbolizes, and if somebody chooses not to wear the poppy, how the community reacts to that. I have had periods of time where I've chose not to wear a poppy because I can't handle a conversation about it, or I'm angry, or something, and that doesn't take away from how proud I am, and how honored, and grateful, and how much pride I have for the life and experience that I have had, and the soldiers before me that have made the sacrifice. However, they chose to make the sacrifice. We didn't. And we've made the sacrifice, too. So, honoring that, honoring the sacrifice that we made, that we didn't get a choice in. 

So, how do you do that? Of course, is the ultimate question. And I think it comes from that recognition. Opening up the doors to those conversations, having it in the school system. If a teacher would have said to me when my grades were slipping, or I was acting out, ‘Hey, what's going on? What's going on at home? What, like, talk to me? Or is your dad home?’ or whatever the case would have been, I would have felt seen. And so, I think, like, whether it's a coach, whether it's a teacher, anybody that is noticing those things, and acknowledging that, that appreciation, that, yeah, the acknowledgement of saying ‘Hey, I realize that you've experienced this, and I see you,’ instead of the experience I had. Teachers were saying, ‘Hey, I notice your dad left your house at midnight,’ or, you know, “I notice your dad's not living at home anymore,’ and it's like, OK. You know, there's a gentle way to approach it. 

So yeah, I think the more education, the more awareness we can create, the more recognition for what the like, what it means to be a Military child and that the pressure, and the weight of that means something, and that we experience things that are happening in the world in a different way, with different questions, with different moral conflict, almost, inside of ourselves, questioning, and where to go with those questions. Having those really difficult conversations, what that means when it comes to voting, how do you vote as a Military child? These are really, really, big topics. However, it's, it's at the point now, I think, when my spouse retired, while medically-released from the military, I received a certificate. And that's wonderful. It's nice, but it is a printed piece of paper. What I could have used is a phone call and resources, and like a package this big. Like, what's next? Like somebody calling and saying, ‘Hey, we recognize what you've done. Here's what we have to offer. What would you like off of this menu?’ Like, you tell us what you need right now, or here's what we have for you going forward would have meant a lot more than a printed piece of paper with a stamp on it.

Claudia [00:47:42]: 

If you had a message for military children, what would that be?

Kayla: 

I mean. Yeah, we kick butt. You kick butt. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

Claudia: 

100 percent 100%.

Kayla:
You are resilient. You are intuitive. You are strong. You are so wildly capable in this life to do anything, be anywhere. Your experience as a Military child is not who you are. It's just the experience you've had, and you can choose to do whatever you want to do, however, you want to do it with those skills, with that experience. Truly. And you're not alone. There's lots of us out there. Make it known.

Claudia [00:48:28]: 

Love it, love.

Julie: 

So many things I hadn't I hadn't even thought about, and I thank you so much. It's been such an interesting discussion. And I mean, even sort of, you know, the idea of like, littles as, who are Military children, but also the idea of, you know, how life changes as a teenager, and it's things I never thought about, but just such good points to sort of keep in mind for, for parents who are who are watching their kids grow up, and, and experience the world a little bit differently. 

Thank you so much for joining us. If you are listening and you have a story that you'd like to tell about your background, about your history, and you have lessons that you would like to share that maybe make life a little easier for the next Military spouse or Military kid. Please let us know. We would love to hear from you, and we will hear from you next month. Bye.

Claudia [Outro]:

And that's it for this episode of Military Family Life. From one military family member to another. If you have any advice that you would like to share, let us know! We would love to hear from you. We may even share your experiences on future episodes. If you have family and friends who want to learn more about living their best military family life, don't hesitate to let them know about our podcast. Thanks for listening. Join us again next time for more Military Family Life.